tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8005062827798430682.post307242207497665196..comments2024-02-21T05:25:03.233-05:00Comments on Adventures in YA Publishing: Unlikeable Characters and Mary Sues: Do We Give More Leeway to Male Characters than Female Characters?Martina Boonehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03358736828122139189noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8005062827798430682.post-47632245714111500002014-07-11T22:31:13.629-04:002014-07-11T22:31:13.629-04:00You make a great point here that I often make in s...You make a great point here that I often make in such conversations which is, would we be having this convo if the protag was male. When I think of characters like Bruce Wayne and HP (or any male superheros), characters that would likely be called a Mary Sue, if they were female, I don't see them as particularly likable. However, they all have some major sadness, with Batman & Harry it's the loss of their parents, that makes us ignore that for them. But, not for female characters. Patricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05952182330802944076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8005062827798430682.post-38652152659540369562014-07-11T13:30:42.080-04:002014-07-11T13:30:42.080-04:00It was interesting traveling through both stories ...It was interesting traveling through both stories puzzling out why Lilac and Katniss kept making choices against their own best interests. Leslie S. Rosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17122865337924270039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8005062827798430682.post-51328808430189785812014-07-11T12:35:44.146-04:002014-07-11T12:35:44.146-04:00I really disliked Katniss in the Hunger Games, bu...I really disliked Katniss in the Hunger Games, but I also don't like Peeta or Gale, and enjoyed reading about Rue and Johanna, so I don't think it's a gender thing. I have to say, however, I do get really annoyed when Katniss gets called a "Mary Sue", in the same way that I get annoyed when people call Harry Potter or Arya Stark "sue-ish."<br /><br />Because if they're Mary Sue's, what exactly do we want? Super unlikable, unremarkable people doing nothing and failing at most things?<br /><br />We want to read about remarkable people in interesting situations. And it really bothers me when people talk about characters they dislike and immediately jump to the Mary Sue label--especially against women. There's a large number of people who dislike the women of A Song of Ice and Fire for their flaws or incredible accomplishments then promptly label them as Sue's, but I almost never hear a protest raise for the flawed or super accomplished male characters.Darth Lolitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18042975826918171575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8005062827798430682.post-1395850242425003852014-07-11T10:18:20.447-04:002014-07-11T10:18:20.447-04:00Do male characters have it easier? Ask Iron Man:
...Do male characters have it easier? Ask Iron Man:<br /><br />Take the suit away and what are you?<br /><br />Genius, billionaire, playboy philanthropist. (Then add: selfish, vain, arrogant, reckless, hot tempered and often immature.)<br /><br />And that's pretty much Batman, too.<br /><br />Now, take away the Y chromosome, and guess who you've got.<br /><br />The name's Sue. Mary Sue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8005062827798430682.post-24559589613749261272014-07-10T21:23:36.316-04:002014-07-10T21:23:36.316-04:00I read the Hunger Games trilogy. I had no complain...I read the Hunger Games trilogy. I had no complaints about Katniss. I found myself rooting for her. I haven't read These Broken Stars, but I will look for it. I think male characters get a pass in ways female characters don't. Interesting discussion.Rosihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01294774973863802821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8005062827798430682.post-26919149541300536732014-07-10T14:20:45.065-04:002014-07-10T14:20:45.065-04:00I loved Lilac too, and I agree about the upward ve...I loved Lilac too, and I agree about the upward versus downward trajectories. Although I did love Katniss--I just hated the ARC in her third book. And I think that coldness is where we the gender issue most comes in. Do you find that you can write the same character as a boy and not have readers complain about coldness or lack of connection?Martina Boonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03358736828122139189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8005062827798430682.post-86474105352549442702014-07-10T14:09:19.900-04:002014-07-10T14:09:19.900-04:00That's a good point, Alex. I think they do get...That's a good point, Alex. I think they do get flack, I just wonder if it's as much flack as the female characters get. Martina Boonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03358736828122139189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8005062827798430682.post-33568294386496864232014-07-10T12:29:19.104-04:002014-07-10T12:29:19.104-04:00I've read both of them. I didn't like Katn...I've read both of them. I didn't like Katniss that much, but I didn't like the premise of the story so it was difficult to get past that. I liked Lilac. Her character arc was so much better than the one the writer put Katniss through. She changed for the better. I had no problem with either of these characters as far as gender concerns. But I do see your point. I find it difficult to write girls myself because I tend to write them cold.Jane Harringtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05914649664507501849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8005062827798430682.post-91566454062727269642014-07-10T07:56:16.232-04:002014-07-10T07:56:16.232-04:00haven't read Hunger Games, just watched the mo...haven't read Hunger Games, just watched the movie. Didn't like Katniss at all. Sounds like her character is handled differently in the books though.<br />My main character starts out unlikeable in my first book. Some reviewers even said too unlikeable. So even male characters can get some flack.Alex J. Cavanaughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09770065693345181702noreply@blogger.com